What Makes a Brand Memorable: Jack Monson on how great brands create distinction & staying power

Hey everybody. Welcome to today's webinar. I am super excited to have Jack Monson on today. For those who don't know, Jack is the Chief Growth Officer at Thunderly and host of the long running Social Geek Podcast. Years talking to franchise leaders about growth, marketing, makes brands stand out, and that's exactly what we're gonna be talking. To him about today. A lot of things about the intersection of franchising, storytelling, media, and really just helping brands tell their true story, and connect more with, both their franchisees and their customer. Jack, so happy to have you on. Welcome.

Hey Gary. Thanks for having me. Good to see you.

Yeah. I mean, so, you know, maybe before we dive into it, I'd love to just hear from you, you know, your background, how you found your way to this form of storytelling, and just how you think about it more broadly. However you wanna take that.

I started, many years ago in radio and that kind of led to more of a, a marketing agency type. Life And, about, wow, 16, 17 years ago I was working for an agency that was based in the New York area. And, the, we had a couple of clients that were franchises and I had no idea what franchising was.

Nobody does before they get into it. Right. And the owner of the agency said, Hey, I want you to go to this thing called the International Franchise Association. And I was like. That sounds awful. Why would I want to go to something like that? Right. We were working with, you know, these, these big Fortune 100 companies, and why would I want to get into franchising?

Well, I went to the IFA for the first time, I think that was 2009. And, Long story short, I've been back every year since. I'm, I'm the, I've, I've been very active with the IFA, I've been on the supplier board and I'm currently the chair of the Marketing and Innovation Committee, so to say, I went all in on franchising, is kind of an understatement.

After that.

I mean, you were, you were the centerpiece of the. Entire convention this year. For those who don't know, there is a massive hall and Jack was set up in the middle in this soundproof glass dome interviewing folks and creating amazing content. Is that right?

My glass cage. I think we did, about 20 podcasts in two days. So it was, it was a little exhausting, but it was a lot of fun. There's a lot of people there who, You want to talk to at any time. And the only time you're gonna get their attention and really get a half an hour to sit down with them is at the convention.

So, we talked to a lot of the IFA 2026 award winners, people who've won the major awards, some of the board members, some of the past chairs, people like that, who it, it's hard to corral these people at any other time other than that one week in February when we're all under the same roof.

Yeah, well maybe that's a good place to start talking about those folks. So, you know, as we, I'm on the opera. Side. But when I look at, on the marketing side, on the branding side, there are so many brands out there that have good businesses. But you know, they're in kind of relatively similar, maybe even the same space, and they kind of feel interchangeable.

Maybe that's, I dunno if that's the right way, but, you know, they, they feel like, there's same service, same branding, same package. Why is that, in your experience?

Know, I'll look at it from the franchise development angle, not so much from the consumer side. When it comes to Fran Dev, you have to think about this. There are, there are about 4,000 franchise brands in the United States, and at the end of the day, they all have the same product. They're, they, they have an opportunity, right?

So whether you are a pizza brand or a home services brand, or an education brand, you have an opportunity for someone to invest in, partner with you, become a franchisee, become a multi-unit franchisee, maybe so. When we look at it from that angle, all brands are kind of the same regardless of sector. What you've gotta do is dig in a little deeper and say, okay, what makes our opportunity unique?

Why is this a better brand for someone to invest in than a similar pizza brand that's, you know, right down the street? So I think it's that, that idea of. Of someone could be a franchisee of this pizza brand or that WINGS brand, or this sandwich shop. I think 20 years ago from, from what I understand, it was a lot more distinct when it comes to, you know, I'm a home services guy, or you are a pizza guy and that's the only thing you do.

We're seeing a lot of franchisees. Diversify into multisectors now. So, and I think that's a good thing for all brands and for the industry and for the community. So we've gotta get to a point where you can distinguish your brand as a great opportunity, not necessarily the same way you are creating that key differentiator.

For the consumers, right? The, the multi-unit investors don't really care about your secret sauce for making spicy wings or Nashville Hot chicken. What they care about, is this a good business to operate? Will I have a great life if I invest in this business? So we've gotta find those, those key points of differentiation about it as an opportunity, not as a consumer product.

How do you make sure that you're focused on. The right franchisee. Right on. And you just had a great distinction about multi-unit versus, you know, the passionate single unit and transparently, there's probably brands where they want somebody who is energized and it takes initiative and that's the better fit for their brand.

How do you make sure that the right brand is talking to the right franchisee?

Yeah, that, that's a great question. It's, I, I think we want to get away from the way we've been doing it for the past couple of decades, which is creating these personas. And I think everyone thought that that was going to be the prescription for success is well, we'll create personas and we'll have a persona called Gary that's, you know, this type of guy with this sort of investment and this sort of background.

My problem with personas is. I've never seen a persona that fits me and you've probably never seen one that you really feel comfortable saying that it fits you as well. No one really sees themselves in any persona. It, it's kind of a lazy marketing thing to just create these five personas and say, we're gonna go after these five types of people.

There aren't five types of people, there are billions of types of people, and I think they just sort of fall into. A situation or a timeframe where they might become a good franchisee or maybe they're interested in your opportunity, that same person and that same persona. Six months from now might not be a good fit, or two years ago might not have been a good fit, but their life has changed.

And right now it's a perfect storm and, and they could become a good franchisee. And maybe, maybe that's the way to look at it, not just people who, you know, fit these demographics and, and things like that. So what we're doing now. And again, my, my company, thunder Lee, is all about Fran Dev marketing. We don't do any consumer marketing.

We don't do any local franchisee marketing. It's all about finding good franchisees for your brand. What we're doing now is really using the tools out there from all of the social channels, search channels, ai, programs too. Allow us to create content that people will be interested in based on other things that they're interested in.

Right? So instead of saying, we're gonna target, you know, people of a certain age or location or, or. Dollar or you know, financial status instead of targeting those people, we're creating content, putting it out there and letting the channels send the people who like that sort of content our way. And I think that's really how you scale up Fran Dev right now.

Because if you're only targeting a certain number of people in a certain part of the country, you're gonna run out of targets real soon. But there's a lot of other people out there who don't fit those targets or those audience stats or those personas that you're, you're, you're kind of leaving them on the table.

So it's all about creating good content that's going to attract people who are interested in your offering.

That's so, that's so interesting. So it's less about crafting a persona and doing the targeted outbound motion toward them, and rather saying that. Create some kind of magnetism around your brand

Absolutely.

Is gonna pull the right person that is there because, and the right person is the person that is drawn to kind of magnet.

Right? It's

Yeah.

Of synergy. I like that. I.

Yeah, it makes content more important than ever. You know, 20 years ago or even, even five or 10 years ago, you would see these Fran dev ads that all, what did they say? Be your own boss. Right? You know, your entry into the pizza industry or something like that. And it very generic. Kind of messaging, very generic, creative, you know, there are some stock photos that I think everyone used the same small business owners for about 20 years.

And the creative was all kind of the same. And they were focusing on the targeting, okay, we wanna focus on this demographic in the state of Texas and, and target our lousy ads to those people, right? So now it's just the opposite. We're not so worried about. The targeting, we're creating the right messages and the right types of images and videos and podcasts and conversations that the people who would be a good fit for your franchise are going to be attracted to.

And that's, that's really the key for a lot of the clients that we're having great success with right now.

How, how do you think about, how does a brand tap into that, right? If I'm, if I'm a franchisee looking at 20 brands across several verticals, and maybe there's messages that stand out to me in each one. How do brands create that memorable moment where they are, that one in 20 that actually stands out and is seared into their brain?

I'll, I'll give you the easy answer of what not to do. Don't use AI to create your ads. There's so much slop out there and, they're funny, they look cool sometimes, but the one thing that, that, AI cannot do yet is tap into that human emotion. You still need good storytellers and good ad creatives to create those ads that.

Are going to connect with people on an emotional level. I have not yet seen AI be able to do that, so, so stay away from the ai lop, hire a good creative person, a good designer, a good storyteller, a good videographer. Hire a good agency. Let those people do what they do to tell those stories and reach out to those prospective candidates.

How, the natural question is you start working with a brand. How do you get them to bring out their authenticity or their unique element? How do you tease that out of a brand when you start working with them?

Authenticity is the key. You've gotta find what that brand does that's authentic and different from everyone else. And when I say things like storytelling and, and brand story. What I don't mean is their origin story. And that can be very hard for a founder especially. Right. Tell me the story about your brand and they want to talk about how their grandfather created the secret pizza sauce in 1965.

Okay. That's interesting. A multi-unit investor does not care. Right. What you've gotta do is find. Find, find out about their, their core beliefs and their values, and what does that company mean and what does it mean, especially to their customers. If I'm an investor, I'm looking for a brand that has fanatic customers, right?

Because, because I'm going to be able to sort of ride that wave. So find out what the customers like about the brand. Show that to the potential franchisees, that's what they wanna see. Is it because of their, their, their great, their great product? Or is it because of their cool subscription service, or their convenience, or their locations, or, or maybe it's more of a.

Back to the core beliefs. Maybe it's because, they align with my values. We're seeing that a lot more than we were seeing that even 10 years ago. There's a whole new generation of franchisees that are selecting the brands that they're investing in by their core values. Do they align with. The way I wanna live my life, as opposed to, you know, several years ago it was more about, yeah, okay, how much money can I make?

Right? So I, I think we're getting, that's still very important, don't get me wrong, but I think we're getting more and more in, into the area of, well, I could make a million dollars with this brand, or I could make a million dollars with that brand, but that brand. Really lines up with the way I think and the way I wanna, run my company and the things I believe in as sort of my core values.

So interesting. You know, I, I guess as an outsider, on the operation side, right, I would imagine that so much of it is just nuts and bolts in comparing item nineteens almost right? And.

Yeah. Yeah.

And it sounds like there isn't just that, it sounds like there is kind of an alignment of, do I like these people?

Do I like what they stand for? Do I want my personal brand as a franchisee to be associated with this bigger brand that's across the country? And, and I guess it checks, it just, I, I would think that it's becoming more bottom line and it sounds like it's actually becoming

I, I think it's becoming,

Bottom line, I think

Yeah.

Yeah.

I, I think that's a, a good way to put it. I, I think there are some people who still just want to see, can I make a million dollars or a million dollars plus one, right? But, I, I think we're getting into a whole new generation of people who, they want more than that, right?

They, they can, they can make a million dollars here or a million there, but are these people aligning with the way I, I want to live?

So how. You kind of walked us through a few different ones where people misstep or brands misstep. One being on the AI side where they have something that's a little too polished and means nothing. Other might be something where they are talking about their past rather than their present, which would be their customers or their future of their brand and their, what's rooting them and what's carrying them forward.

What are some other, I don't wanna call them mistakes, but missteps that you've seen brands make and maybe continue to make.

I, I think, going back to an old Steve Jobs saying about hiring smart people and then listening to them, that's something that some franchise brands. Really misstep and, and it's, it's pretty easy to fix. If you hire a great chief marketing officer or a great chief development officer, or a great COO, hire them.

Let them do their job. Listen to them. They know more about that area. Then the founder or the CEO knows, and, and I think really great leaders understand that. And they, they listen to a chorus, as we like to say, instead of just listening to maybe one advisor, or even worse, just listening to themselves. So bring those people in and, you know, give them the tools they need on that playing field.

Because, like we talked about earlier, the playing field is pretty even, you know, one brand looks like another, just like you said. So you've, you've gotta figure out. How do we, how do we get an advantage on this playing field? And if you bring in the right people, that's really all the founder of the CEO needs to do is, is surround themselves with the smartest people you can get and people who, have that drive to win.

And don't just bring people into fill seats. I see that. Far too often. One other thing when it comes to personnel that is, is really hard for a brand is the nature of the tenure that we're looking at right now. I think in franchising. Wow. There's a lot of people changing jobs and it's been that way for a couple of years, and that's really hard on the brand.

I, the most recent stat I saw was that. Franchise heads of marketing like a, a VP of Marketing or A CMO, they're in their job now. I think an average of 18 to 24 months. That's horrible for the brand because if you're changing CMOs every 18 months, the new CMO is gonna come in and everything that has been built upon is gonna get thrown out the window.

Right. It's really bad for suppliers because the new c o's gonna bring in, you know, a, a new service or a new marketing agency, or a new PR firm or, or a new CRM just because they want to have something with their fingerprints on it. And every time you change that stuff, especially if it's been working and it's been building, every time you change that, you're starting over.

So I think the, the, the revolving door of C-Suite executives right now is something that's really damaging to a brand. So be very careful who you bring in. Be very careful of the jobs you choose to take. You know, find something and someone who's going to partner with you for a really long time so you can actually build this brand up.

I've seen this happen with so many brands who. You know, they're still at 25 to 50 units. Well, that's the size they were 10 years ago. And, and if you had to diagnose what's wrong with them, it's because the people have changed. So it's, it's a new group of people going over the same territory. You don't have people who are actually building the brand up.

Meanwhile, you'll see another brand that 10 years ago had 25 units, and now they're at a thousand units. Units and, and, and I think you've gotta look at these brands and say, what's the difference? And, and to me it usually comes down to the people, the leadership team, the marketing that they're doing, and the operations.

That's scary, right? I mean, I'm, I'm a founder myself, right? And I. You know, we're going through our own branding exercises and we're on that journey. We're young and growing quickly, and you know, you bring in a marketing person or you bring in a brand specialist. And to your point of not listening to the chorus, typically it's when everybody zigs, you zag, and that's how you stand out.

But then there's another element of, well, every marketing person might zag in their own direction, and it's not, it's not actually the same method. So as a founder, you. Your options are to maybe hope that they're, they'll going the right way, or sometimes naturally I feel that instinct to maybe play it safe because it's better to maybe zig instead of going off in the wrong direction and, and there's all these different ways to go about it.

So how would you coach a founder who's thinking through that

I'll, I'll tell you the same thing. I told a very good friend of mine who's the founder and CEO of a great franchise brand, and I said, you know, if you're looking for a new CMO. Think about this. Don't hire someone who's just going to say yes to every idea you have, because quite frankly, you're not a great marketer.

What I want in A CMO is someone who I constantly have to say no to because they're coming up with some crazy idea and, you know, three times a month you have to tell the CMO. No. We can't do that. We don't have the budget, we don't have the money. We tried that before. It's that or, or it's just a crazy idea and I don't like it.

But every once in a while, that same crazy CMO is gonna come up with something that's going to grow your business. So if your head of marketing isn't coming to you saying, you know, Hey, let's try this, and you have to constantly tell them no, then you might want to rethink what you're doing on that executive team, because I want somebody who's going to.

Push. And I want somebody who's going to come up with crazy ideas. That's what grows companies. So, let your chief financial officer be the, the person that plays it safe, right? But your marketing person should be out there on the front lines, you know, sort of leading the charge. And, even if that means you have to, you have to knock them down once in a while.

That's a good thing.

I like that. I like, that's advice for me. That's, even as a

Yeah.

Business. Right. Great advice. So, all right. Let you know, let's say I'm convinced, right? I, I wanna do something. Maybe we'll wrap this up with thinking about, you know, the, the now and in the future for these brands, right? I wanna invest in my brand.

What is step one to building a memorable brand or making your brand more memorable? What's that first step?

I think get the people in place and, and find some people who can help you figure that out. Again, it's that key differentiator. Talk to not just the same old agency that you've been using, but talk to new agencies. This is where I think. Groups like the International Franchise Association, national Restaurant Association, I, I think groups like that, that put on these shows, that's to me, the real value of these events and conferences.

It isn't just to go listen to panelists. It, it's really more about connecting with people and finding out from other founders and CEOs what's working for you. You know how, who, who's a good marketing person I should talk to, who's a good consultant I should talk to. That's something that I think franchising does better than any other industry I've ever touched, is that sharing of knowledge and information.

You know, I, I saw it at the IFA this year. You'll see two competitors standing there having coffee together and they're helping each other out. You know, if you went to the automotive or pharmaceutical or other industries, they'd be like, what are you people doing? But in franchising, we do people, people actually ask advice of their competitors, of other people in the industry.

And, and you get a lot of help from the other people. It, it's really a community that likes to, you know, let that rising tide lift all ships. So ask around. Talk to lots of marketing agencies. Talk to lots of software companies or other experts, and, and you'll find those people who are aligned with you and who maybe can, you know, sort of see through your story and, and pull some nuggets out and say, okay, this is what the brand should be all about.

And then go from there, then hire the people to, to make it happen.

I love that. And maybe I'll sneak in one more question here, 'cause I'm curious now. Right? So you talked about this idea of. You know, bringing out what's best in the brand and, you know, bringing in and broadening your horizons to talk to new people and talk across the industry. And one of the things I'm thinking about is, all right, let's say I have my memorable thing, but I am now operating a franchise brand at scale where I have multiple leaders and multiple teams and many franchisees. How do you think about making that memorable nugget, have consistent voice and personality and storytelling. Not becoming generic and overproduced, right? How do you maintain that authenticity at scale, which sounds so hard.

Yeah, that, that is sort of the secret in franchising or, or maybe the biggest hurdle is that we're not Starbucks or Walmart, where you just put it out there and say, okay, every location has to do the same thing. You've, you've gotta have control of the brand. That's, that's the most important thing. But let.

The franchisees and the local owners be a part of that. They will probably come up with something that you and your C-Suite didn't come up with and, and listen to them as well. You're not going to do everything that a, that a franchisee says that they're going to do or wants to do. Sort of like that crazy CMO.

You can't say yes to everything, but there will be some, some good ideas out there. Don't overly localize everything. I, I, I find some fault with that too. You know, sometimes franchisees want to get a little too into, making the brand feel local. It, it, it's up to you to sort of police that and make sure that the brand is what the brand is and keep that consistency up.

But when it comes to what's going on in their local community and, and how they're. Connecting with people, whether it's little league teams or college sports or local festivals and things like that. That's really where that community happens and, and you gotta get to the point where the brand is what the brand is nationwide, but in that neighborhood or that small town or that suburb, it's something special to those customers.

And if I'm the franchisee, that's what I want to have happen. That's how I keep my business going.

Amazing. Jack, this was awesome. Thanks for spending, you know, this half hour.

Absolutely.

In this. Last question always is, folks wanna get in touch if people have follow up questions. What are the best ways to get ahold of

Yeah, you can, you can reach me at any time on our website, thunder league marketing.com. And, please, always, check in on Social Geek, the podcast. You can find it wherever you feed your brain. Just look for social geek.

I recommend Social Geek. It's an awesome, awesome podcast. Jack. Thanks again. Talk soon.