Performance Coaching vs Support Coaching: Michael O’Driscoll on the differences & the maturity curve

Hey everybody, welcome to today's webinar. Today we have Michael O'Driscoll on. Michael is the COO and President of Franchising at Homefront Brands, and has done it all in franchising. Michael's been a CEO, a COO, an advisor across multiple continents, all within the scope of franchising.

And has worked intimately with franchise owners and franchise teams and coaching teams. Super excited to have him on today, specifically to talk about support coaching versus performance coaching. So, Michael, first of all, thank you so much.

It's a pleasure to be here.

So before we get into it, anything that you can tell the folks about your background?

I know I gave the two second summary there.

Oh yeah, sure. So, I've been in the franchise sector for 38 years, you've pointed out in a couple of countries, which is great. Actually got my start working for my father. My father was the founder of what became Australia's largest residential building franchise. He started that in the early 1980s and using the franchise business model, it became actually the second largest builder in Australia, in the late 1980s. So, that's how long I've been around.

I didn't know that, so maybe that's a good place to start actually, you know, what did coaching look like back then when it was a family affair?

It's interesting back then and certainly in Australia, there were no particular franchising laws. So it was a very entrepreneurial sector in the late seventies and early eighties. There was some requirements, but they were fairly minimal. It didn't last long. Really what coaching was like, was whatever the franchise agreement said the franchisor had to do kind of dictated what type of coaching and then what common sense dictated to you as well. Franchisees and the family business was a very technical franchise because it was to do with the building industry.

So the coaching was very technical. It was a lot of product training, a lot of vendor training, a lot of troubleshooting because they manufactured the frames and roof trusses in a factory and ship them to a job site to be assembled. So there was a lot of logistics involved in it as well.

So all of the coaching was very technically orientated and design orientated. And coaching back then was like, okay, yeah, what's your problem? And I'll figure out how to solve it. Which is still true to an extent, but it's a little bit more sophisticated these days and you know, this is before computers were particularly common in offices, right?

Benchmarking took a long time and, you know, there were a lot more in-person meetings, right? There was none of this Zoom and Google Meet and Teams stuff going on back then. I had a fax machine in my office. So you would end up faxing things to, you know, you'd create a spreadsheet or some kind of report and you'd fax it to the franchisee.

A business coach or whatever they, I can't remember what they were called back then. I think they were called a field manager even. They would just get on the phone and have a conversation with the franchisee and then they'd get in the car or get in a plane and just go and spend time with the franchisee, which usually in Australia in particular, involved a lot of lunches and dinners.

So it was, that's interesting. So it was A) less synchronized right Just less data and more of that picking up the phone.

By today's standards incredibly unsophisticated.

And so it was support driven in the sense that it took the franchisee reaching out to you to send you, I mean, presumably a fax. But I imagine, oftentimes a call to ask you a question about the technical things of the field or to ask about that.

And it was more supporting them in that than it was about looking at data and kind of proactively coaching them through things. Is that right?

And yeah, true. A lot of the issue back then was it took a long time to assemble data it required. We had, I can't even believe I'm saying this. We actually had a statistician on staff. Who would assemble the data into reports that guys could use. So you're coaching people on stuff that is latent, right? It was months old. Sometimes royalties were collected by check. People used to mail in the check.

Yeah, well, you think about the time that that dad's business was running, it was created, Microsoft was just getting going.

Right? So eventually there were PCs on people's desks, right? These big bloody things, green screens and all that kinda stuff. Or the green sort of little text. And eventually that impacted the finance team more than anything, right? 'cause and then they could keep their reporting better and financial reporting became more timely.

And then the other operating KPIs were not as deeply investigated, right? Because there was this not necessarily agreement. That there would be business planning and you know, that and the review of the business plan, but that's a once a year thing per se. Not like the, the almost real time reviewing that you can do now in some cases.

So it was, it was very different. I think the coach was more there for relationship and troubleshooting, and then compliance. But compliance was like, at the product level was you can build it like that, you can't build it like that. Right. So there was a lot of design questions and engineering questions.

Again, in the, in the family business, very technical. And franchising back then, home services was not really a thing. It was around, but it wasn't a thing 'cause it was all food, QSRs, retail, car dealerships, real estate, petroleum and big ticket stuff like us. It was anything that was pretty process driven, high dollar or high transaction was going pretty well back then.

Got it. So the coaches were relationship inbound questions, which it seems like there were plenty of those just 'cause of the technical nature of the product.

And then, all right, so kind of fast forwarding through. You know, the adoption, P&L data maybe becomes more available. But then also I think the big unlock was that you started getting that transaction level data into those feeds.

And maybe that wasn't, you know, back in the, in the original business, but whatever franchising org you were leading at that time, when did that coaching start to move from, alright, I'm here to support, to I'm here to actually help you engineer your business better?

Yeah, I think it started To get better in the mid nineties, to be honest. As the technology got better to capture data, I think it's direct correlation between the ability to capture and analyze data and put more context into that data that made the conversation different. Some people might say there's no difference between support and coaching.

They're kind of the same thing and possibly interchangeable. And I accept that view, but to me, having been in the franchise sector for so long, I draw a strong distinction. Support has a very broad connotation that isn't just about the measurement of performance, right? And at the end of the day,

it is a business partnership of some form and people need to work together, a franchise owner and a franchisor and their team, and the vendors as well. They're the three important people, plus the customer of the franchisee, but in the operation of a franchise model, those three entities need to come together well.

And what makes that work well these days is the fact that there is so much data sharing and discussion about that data, and making decision off that data. I recall how anecdotal some decision making was. Right, everyone thinks this, okay, that must be true and let's do it.

And there were a lot more face-to-face meetings than there are today, for example, because we didn't have these things right to do that. So there were much more face-to-face meetings. Like the Franchise Advisory Council at Dad's Business met every month. And they fly in and again, in the great 1980s Australian tradition, it was more about, having a good time in the pub with some business conversation, and then all problems were resolved in the pub run. The relationship issues were resolved in the pub, whereas the technical stuff was discussed during the day. We need more designs, we need to meet consumer trends. All that was good. Now we have the subject of performance coaching, which is, you know, I think an evolved way of describing support and support really does fall into two buckets.

It's the relationship stuff. Like, Hey, we've got you. Yeah, you're having a bad day or a bad trading period. Let's see what we can do to help you. Or you've got a particular issue that you need help with, or there's problems at home and we need to cut you a break on some stuff. That's all good, right?

That's good support being a good franchisor, right? Working with the, with the person who is the franchise owner. And then at the end of the day though, why are they there? And why are you there? You are there to create wealth for yourself, and help the franchise owner create wealth. That wealth is the thing that facilitates the transformation that you became a franchisor for and you became a franchise owner for, right?

It doesn't matter whether you already had money, you doing it because either you really dig the model and you like that shared endeavor and that partnership that franchising can give you, but you are also there to create financial success. And that financial success facilitates whatever dreams and ambitions you have personally, right, that are financially related. So performance coaching for me is really, a souped up version of support. Yes, support, but at the same time using the data. Just like any other business, not just franchise business models to make great decisions that improve that financial position for the franchisor, and the franchise owner.

And the conversation is yes, relational, but, and if you've got timely production of data and timely reporting of that data with good interpretation and potentially predictive analysis. Then it gives you more time to actually work on the relationship piece. Because quite often what you're discussing is what behaviors need to change in order to correct the direction of the business.

That's not like. Flicking a button, tweaking a dial, and a business owner somewhere in the world has to wake up one day, stop and start doing something in order for that business that they own to operate in a different way. So for me, at the end of the day, performance coaching zeroes in and a bit more on helping create the, the outcome that they came to the franchise business model for, whether they're a franchisor or a franchisee.

I love that. It's, I mean, if I can try to repeat it, it's a switch from I'm there for you, right. Like I am, if you need me, I'm there for you and I'll help you.

That is important, by the way.

That's support, and then it's a move towards something that's a bit more like we are in this together. We are working towards a shared financial success goal and that, and there's a little bit more push there, right? There's a little bit more agency for the brand, the franchisor, to push the franchisee to greater financial success.

Well, I mean, an abridge way of saying these things is, look, if you're not growing, you're dying in a business. The status quo does not help the franchise business model when it comes to performance. A good franchise company will keep finding new franchise operators, and franchisees should always keep pursuing their dream. And that dream can shift when they realize what is possible. Maybe they achieve their first goal and they go, actually, I'm gonna challenge myself some more and I really wanna step it up. And, the franchisor needs to respond to that by saying, Hey, great.

What is it that you want to achieve now, and let's build a plan around that together and let us both support you and measure you on your pathway to that, that new goal. Right? That's really important. I do think though, like every franchise brand, as you mature, you get basically three classes of franchise owner.

You get that top performer who's always hungry, always challenging himself, and the franchisor to keep, you know, keep getting bigger and better. And then you've got the, what I call the, the comfortable middle class. You know, those people that might grow a little bit, or, you know, a few percentage points, are profitable and really love what they do, right? They're not necessarily a business builder, like say the top percentages who's ever expanding, but they are reliable, they're responsive, you have generally good relationship with them. And then you've got what I call the bottom class.

These are the people for whatever a reason, it's not working for them and you know, they're not working for you. It's just whatever, they're a bad operator. Something's happened in their life that affected them and they can't focus on the business. They could be unwell, they might not even be operating the business full time.

You let them in, you assess them, you thought they had what it takes and they don't. That tends to suck all the energy out of a franchisor, and they're the ones to have the most difficult conversation with. Because often what you're talking about is the lack of performance.

Now that might be, Hey, let us help you sell this business because it just looks like you're miserable, not enjoying it, and you're unhappy about so many things. Let's, you know, let us help you, exit this so-called misery. And then there are those who are just recalcitrant, right? They just simply won't take the advice, even though you serve it up to 'em in data form, but then it becomes an exercise in risk management here. This is what good performance coaching does.

You lead with the data in a conversation about ways to improve their business. Should they continue to refuse, then you have to take action as a franchisor. You can't just let it fly, right? You're not doing any favors for the other franchisees who work hard, work with you, are successful or trying to be successful because the franchisor spends a disproportionate amount of its time working on the bottom class for really no gain.

No one's getting anything out of it. So using good performance coaching, you should just cut to the chase with these people and keep pushing them on the issuer and the data should lead you there. Now, it is true that you can have high performers who are difficult people. That is manageable because you know what you've got, right?

They're pressing, they're challenging, they don't always follow the rules. Franchise laws can be sometimes too inflexible about rules because like, oh, it has to be all the same everywhere, which is not always true, right? You have to, in a big country, in a big market like America, you have to adapt to regionality, hyperlocal, different tastes in parts of the country. So it's a little bit more nuanced than just, it has to be the same everywhere. So what's really important in modern performance coaching and why it's so important is because if you're not talking about performance, then what are you really managing and how do you know intentionally, that directionally the whole business model is sound and going the right way? So these are, to me, really important. It doesn't, again, it doesn't diminish the importance of having the personal connection, it actually enhances it.

Because over time, if you can bust through the difficult conversation, I don't need every franchise owner to love me, and I don't need them to be my best friend.

They just need to know I respect them and their position, and hopefully they respect mine and my people's position on things because the data led us there to that position. That's really important too, and I think overall that makes a healthy relationship. If you think about what we're trying to really achieve, we want them to be financially successful and realize whatever dreams and ambitions they have, and we want to be wildly successful and at our own personal and business levels, realize our dreams and ambitions as well, right?

It's the same outcome. It's just sometimes the pathway and the argument about how to get there is different, right? But the data so readily available to us now, so rich, with the tools that we have, like Harmonyze, can lead you into very good conversations that actually maximize that. That relationship side of the business because instead of a business coach spending, you know, hours assembling reports and trying to gather the data and all that kind of thing, if you go to a spot like Harmonyze, which consolidated data sources with advice in it, it gives a franchisee an opportunity to course correct faster in their own time.

And a coach just doesn't sit there, having spent hours assembling something, trying to understand what's going on. It's now a coaching call probably can have more relationship side to it. So they're building more rapport and empathy, and putting what I call building relationship equity or deposits.

Because when times get tough, you might have to have a run on the bank, on the relationship equity, right? So, you know, the parties will have to dig deep sometimes to get through those tougher times. So to me, I like the term performance coaching 'cause it encapsulates I think, a more pointed reference to why we are here in the franchise business model.

And, you've gotta have that business conversation with the franchise owner, right? As long as there's respect there for each other's perspective based on the data, then you can actually make good decisions together, in my opinion.

I do wanna get to the operational piece. I wanted to ask one quick thing about what you said. So, I like the kind of, you have the low performers, that middle class, and then the top performers, which could be hard and you said something that I hear from every brand, which is that bottom tranche just sucks time.

Right? And then you end up with the rest of them. Maybe you have that relationship equity, but you're not doing performance coaching necessarily. You know, now that you know in 2026 and there's bandwidth, what does good performing co-performance coaching look like for, I know the bottom, but that middle and top performers?

Yeah, I think there's some things. It's a good point. Look, I wanna say one thing about the bottom class, which is a slightly negative, inference there, but maybe 'cause I've been doing this too long,. To me, the reason some of them are there is quite legitimate.

It could be they've got issues that are distracting them from being focused on actually running the business in an appropriate way.

And we are very sensitive to that here at Homefront. We try and be, you know we don't treat them as a mass body of business owners. We try and get to that individual needs assessment and understanding. And some of it is very challenging, right? It's very difficult and you have to take what I'll call compliant and remedial action against those people because they're doing things that are just entirely inappropriate and not good for the health of the overall brand.

And that's just the life of a franchisor. Coming back to the performance coaching of the middle and the top. The middle is not about no growth, and it's not about steady state. Say they're, you know, maybe they're doing a million dollars a year and they have been doing that for a few years, right? So they're neither going backwards or growing, and maybe they're eking a few more points out of their net result because they've got so good at running the business that, you know, it's a well-oiled machine.

If they're doing that and they're growing at three to five percent. And you put in good performance coaching and you can move that three to five percent to say seven to nine percent. You've had a win as a franchisor, and they probably didn't need to change that much to get there. What a lot of early stage franchise companies are used to of course, is that really steep curve of growth because you are awarding new franchise units.

They're opening and trading. The existing ones are mature, well, not maturing, they're getting through a phase where they're past the startup phase and they're into, you know, they're getting into the zone right? To have years of good trading, hopefully. So everything's growing right.

And, I think it's difficult to capture good performance in that phase, right? And, if you can get them to go from that two, three, five percent to anything close to double digit, and if you can get you know, 30 to 40% of that middle class to do that, that's a great overall result for the brand. Now, the top performers, you don't need to motivate, right?

They're excited about being there, they get the model. They've got a financial IQ around the model, right? They go, I know where, I know where the money comes from, I know how the cash should be managed, and I know how to manage it to produce a net result and build enterprise value.

They kind of have that intuitive financial IQ. Not every owner comes in with that knowledge. And they will come to you and challenge you around. You need to give me this, or I need this flexibility and all that kind of thing. And that's the great challenge of being a franchisor, particularly if you're new to it, is how much leeway am I giving these people, right?

Without feeling like, because usually it's a founder as the franchisor who tends to take things more personally and is not necessarily making decisions based on: that sounds reasonable I'll let them do that or I'll support them in doing that, versus, this is the way I do it and it has to be done. And having a hissy fit over whether or not that was a good thing to do or not.

So more informed owners, these founders and franchisors these days will realize that frankly, you're all building it together. No one owns all the ideas. We should be focusing your attention as the constant refinement of the business through constant data analysis of franchisee performance, constant measurement of vendors, and making sure that the franchisees and the information you have for them is always current.

The great challenge for franchisors is as time creeps on in some respects, the franchisees can need you less. As they get really good at running their businesses. So it's really important that the franchisor maximizes their use of data and the marketplace they operate in so that they still hold thought leadership over the operating of the model.

Right? That's really important. And generally they do that. Some of them just dunno how to use it because they're so hands on doing it, you know? And they're still probably doing clunky ways of analyzing data and all, but they're not using AI, they can't hire the right people.

Most people are still grappling, like everyone is with how do I leverage AI the right way that is advantageous to all the stakeholders in my brand. So there's all of that. So I think that, yeah, that middle class, if you get 'em to creep a little bit up, you know, you've had a win. That top performers, I think you have to craft it for them.

And there's a lot of traditional things you can do, like million dollar clubs. You know, layering franchisees and partnering them together, celebrating them, benchmarking them, case, studying them, getting them to present to the rest of the cohorts on a particular subject. That is all of the good things that you need to do as a good franchisor.

So it's about focusing them in on the right opportunities for that middle tranche, right, and carving out the time to look at the data and be able to thoughtfully get their attention or whatever energy they do have to the right opportunities.

So this is where the support piece, when I say that, I mean it's the relationship piece. Like, do you know what it is they're here for? So the middle class guy is doing a million, you're trying to get him to do $1.1 or $1.2, right? Shouldn't be that much of a stretch.

You know, why should he care? What I'm netting say just as an example, I've got a million dollar revenue business and it pays me, I run all my stuff through it because it's tax efficient to do it like every other small business owner.

And, I net 250, I'm living well. Right? That's fine, good on you. Why do I need to go for $1.2? Okay, well if we could show you, it adds maybe another $50,000 to your bottom line and we know that you are, if you can join the dots between that personal reason they're there, and what that extra $50 grand or so could give them, you know, a little bit more in the 401k, a little bit more in the college bank, whatever.

If you can find that reason and connect those dots and show that the effort is really not that much. Because it's, you know, is it much effort to go from $1 million a year to $1.2 million in a systemized business if you apply and this, and often it's a capacity issue and whether or not they have the work ethic still, okay, I've gotta put on another work crew.

I have to manage that, man. I'm very comfortable managing what I've got. Or I have to buy another vehicle, or I have to, you know, it's the only, we have a lot of conversations with franchisees. I mean, we are not questioning their attitude or their mindset. We just question capacity. And this is why performance coaching is so important, right?

Do you understand that if you want to go from a million to $1.5 or $2 million. It's really an exercise in capacity, and particularly in home services. It usually means you need another crew, or you need a way to reduce the length of time you're on a job site so you can do one more job per day or three more per week, and that's what you break it down to.

It's not like, where am I gonna find another half a million dollars in sale? Well, let's break it down to the job. Okay? Maybe you need a few more commercial jobs in your monthly sales plan so that you can lift your dollars more rapidly rather than doing a lot of smaller residential transactions to make up for it, right?

So it's about having that more nuanced conversation. But again, you need the data. And breaking it down to like, what we're talking about is like five extra jobs a week.

Do you think you could do that? And that, to do that would mean you need to hire two more people or get another truck or something like that right on the road, whatever it is. Or you need another subcontracting crew to, you know, install more fences, whatever it is, right? Or you need, you need to sign one new commercial client a quarter.

Something like that and if you've got the data to support that and model that, then the probability of achieving that significantly increases. There's not a guarantee, but it significantly increases.

So that's actually where I wanted to go next. 'Cause you were one of the first brands to think about moving away from what you said in the eighties of vibe base, right? The idea of doing this on vibe, but I think you can do more money with this if you, and kind of masking it out on a napkin.

But I think you were one of the first ones to say, well, I have this abundance of data, which starts with performance, but also it's important on things like their goals, what they care about, the conversations I'm having with the franchisees and saying that all of that together is an asset. Right? All of that, the context, the goal, the metrics, the realities of the system, the brand assets, all of that is a package in performance coaching. So I guess what I'm asking you is how do you think about in 2026 where AI can churn through huge amounts of unstructured data? How do you think about operationalizing all that data so that it is seamless transition from here's your goal to here's where you are, here's what you do.

Here are the exact things that you need to take action on together.

Yeah, I think there's a couple of elements to this if I'm understanding the question, right? Yes, AI is your friend here, right? How can I more coherently, faster and more, and this is the area that I think is most exciting. How can I provide predictive analysis, right? What can I, and scenario based, modeling and reporting that says if I do these three things, this is, you know, blow out the predictive analysis.

This is where I will get to if I can sustain that. That to me is really powerful, right? Uh, I think that if you have the right tools, being able to consolidate. Like it's pretty typical in a franchise company that you have to go to several places for the data. If you've got a return on ad spend tool, it's usually a vendor,

cause you probably haven't built it yourself. Then, you know, you and the franchisees have to log in and see that, or a report is automatically generated and then you think about it in that silo of functionality. Whereas I think the most powerful performance coaching models are heading towards the assembly and unstructured data, the collection of the totality of data available to the franchisee and the franchisor that allows you to do analysis of the franchisee versus a plan, versus historical performance, versus fellow franchisees and eventually the sector that they trade in, or core competitors, right? Because again, context is everything when looking at data. Everyone can look at the data, everyone can spin a story around it.

But what's the real context for that? And there's no shortage of data, it's about throwing your hands around it, arms around it, and being able to put the right context on it and do the requisite. This is what the data tells us about what behaviors need to change, what capacity needs to increase, what coaching may be required or learning may be required, or extra capital applied.

And then the, what is the outcome of that, doing those things. Because sometimes coaching stops there, right? These are the things you need to do on the basis of the historical information that we have available to us. However, if we can present performance coaching as also predictive, this would be the result of the actions if you successfully took them, then you have a way more contextual conversation with the franchise owner. And I think franchisors should measure themselves like that as well, which they largely do, particularly in the United States because a lot of financial data is publicly available in franchise disclosure documents, right?

So it's not difficult to do some form of benchmarking with core franchise model competitors, and non franchise competitors, if you need to do it. Again, the ability to capture the widest possible data set, and then put that into context, I think just gives you more and more insight.

And it helps you motivate the entire pool, right?

Well, yeah, I'm a little bit weird like that. Motivation is something the self has to manage, right? I can't motivate you, I can say something that might inspire you to take action on something, but that's not motivation. I can try and influence it, but you have to want to be motivated.

There's a famous sort of stoic belief, right? We all get to choose our response. And one of the things I like to talk about with franchise owners is, you can take it that way when we do performance coaching. Or you could choose to be open-minded and follow a thought process around your own analysis to arrive at whether or not our conclusions or suggestions.

Or our predictive analysis is actually on track, right? And what does that mean to you? When you do benchmarking, some franchisees feel and get angry at you, right? Because, well, why are you publishing my data versus the other owner's data? And again, that goes to the context argument, but I always say, look, don't get bitter,

get better, right? There's a reason someone's up here and you are down here. Get curious, get on the phone to them or get on the phone to your brand president or coach and say, what am I not doing? Or what do I need to stop doing? And at the root cause of that is embarrassment.

Because here's the thing that I think really, performance coaching can help with. If it's done well, it can mitigate the sense of embarrassment and shame, what people might feel, particularly adults. Cause adults don't like to admit they're not good at something or they don't know something or, they're afraid to ask what could be perceived as a dumb question.

So, if you're a business owner doing a million dollars a year in revenue in a franchise. You're not expected to know it all, the franchisor doesn't know it all as well. We know the financial IQ and literacy of some of our franchise owners, even though they run multimillion dollar businesses, isn't great.

They're just really good at driving top line performance. Because they're hungry for it, and they're ambitious people, and they're self-motivated. But we know that, you know, I know some guys out there that have got a $2 million a year business and wouldn't know the backend from the front end of QuickBooks to save themselves.

They just wouldn't, and is it their job anyway? Right? They can hire a bookkeeper and, is the best use of your time as a business owner to understand how QuickBooks works? Probably not. So, you know, there are people you can pay to do that and not a whole lot of money to do it.

It could sound sterile sometimes the subject of performance coaching because it's, ah, it's taking the relationship out of us. I said, no, it's actually enhancing the relationship. If you can prove that you are giving the data with incredible context and powerful predictive analysis on the outcomes of should they do or not do something, then over time they will respect you for the fact that you have tried very hard to give them the empirical evidence of how they can get to their personal ambition or goal, right? And so that's really important. So I often find it's rooted in embarrassment, these things. Where people, first of all, when they look at data, particularly analysis of large data sets, because usually again, you're looking at it, but sometimes just in a single stream,

not in the holistic sense. That, it's denial. No, that's not wrong, right? They'll go, that's not right. I'll go, well, what's not right? It's straight outta your financials. What's not right? You know? Is there something you'd like to tell me?

So they go through a denial phase, then they go through an anger phase, and they go through an embarrassment phase. And then hopefully they go through a phase of, I'm over that, I just wanna take the right action to get better. And the franchisor shouldn't sit there judging them for that either because there's all kinds of people in franchise ownership.

It's a very broad church. And as best you can, you have to deal with them as individuals and all their quirky personality traits. But the performance coaching model helps you get past that very human behavior a little bit to keep zeroing in on: it's a business that's supposed to create net profit.

That helps you fulfill whatever your dreams and ambitions were, right? So you're just gonna keep them on that train of thought.

Well, I love that. I know that you've been generous with your time. Thanks for staying over. Honestly, Michael, this was awesome. Love this. I know everyone's gonna be excited to listen through it. Thank you for the time, I'm sure we'll have you on at some point soon and for those who tuned in, thank you so much.

Thanks everyone.