How Advisory Boards Add Value: John Francis on Why outside perspective helps brands grow smarter

Hey everybody. Welcome to today's webinar. Super excited to have John Francis on with us today. For those who don't know, John has over 30 years of experience in franchising. On the advisor side, the speaker side, he's been a board member. He is the founder of Next Level franchise. Also. He is known famously as Johnny Franchise, if you've heard that name before.

And John serves on the advisory board for all kinds of brands across the industry. Which is why we asked them to come on today to talk about just that advisory boards. What is their purpose, why do people use them, and what do they do for brands? But before we get into all of that, welcome John.

Thank you, Gary. I appreciate it. Glad to be here and glad to share some ideas with you and your audience. Thank you.

Amazing. So I guess before we dig into it, would love to hear in your own words, kind of a little bit about your background, your story in franchising, and then we'll double click into the advisory stuff.

Sure, sure, no problem. Well, I grew up here. I'm in, twin Cities in Minnesota, Minneapolis area. I'm the youngest of five kids in my family, and my parents started a franchise system of hair salons. My dad was a barber actually cutting hair in the fifties, 1950s. And, Before I was ever, you know, they were just married and he was, he was trying to find his way, right?

So he went to barber school and was a pretty good barber. But, he was frustrated. He said, it's gonna take me forever to build anything really meaningful, one head at a time. He, it can only cut hair so fast. And so he, he, he was a barber and in those days there were barber shops for men and beauty salons for women. So he was a barber and he worked for another barber and then he, he wound up. You know, the, the, the traditional path was you would become the apprentice and then you'd buy, you'd, you'd become the owner of the shop and it was a two chair shop. And so him and another guy, and they're cutting hair and he's like, this is all there is, there's gotta be more.

And, There really wasn't anymore at the time in the industry. And so he was frustrated. So he, he looked around and, he got busy and he, he discovered another guy in California actually who had developed a men's salon, which was a. Unusual, right? Because there were barbershops and there were beauty salons, and so this guy had created kind of a cross. So he actually went out to California, watched this guy, saw his thing, and came back to Minnesota and said, we're gonna do this here. So he created a men's. Men's hairstyling is what they called it. The barbers. The barbers was the original brand. Not real creative, but I mean, that's what they did and who they were. So it was, a long story short, Gary, it was a, a real stretch. He went from, I think the story goes, at the time they were charging a dollar 75 for haircuts, right? That's, that's what a haircut was, a dollar 75. He was gonna charge three 50. And, people said, you're crazy. No one is, is ever gonna pay.

You know, why would you give up? You got a great business. Anyway. They, they went for it. They created a real high end appointment based, you know, all the things that we take for granted today. Anyway, it worked. So he, he opened this upscale barbershop, for men. And he recruited great barbers and they, they really went all in, on high level service and high quality and exclusive and products and styling and new cutting techniques And, and, anyway, again. Long story short, it worked. He built another one and another one, and another one. He had five barbershops in short order, which was way more than he ever expected. Nobody had five barbershops right at the time. Someone's, his, his managers were running the five barbershops, they came to him and my dad's name was Joe Francis.

They said, Joe, we see what's going on here. We want a piece of the action. And he said, well, hold on. These are my shops. I built these shops. I paid for all this. You know, it's, you're, you're helping me, but let me, let me figure it out. So someone said, why don't you franchise? He said, what's that? Right? No one, at the time there were restaurants, gas stations and hotels, and I think that was about it.

There wasn't no, we're pretty sure he was the first one to franchise a barbershop. At that, in that era, right? In the, in the sixties it would've been sixties. So he made those five managers franchisees and they, they went off to different, you know, directions around the Minneapolis and Wisconsin and Iowa and you know, the upper Midwest.

And so now he had his five, the original corporate stores, if you will. He had five franchisees each with their own location. So now he had 10 locations, half corporate, half franchise. Well, those franchisees were barbers worked with him. So they knew the business, they knew the model. And, and of course for, again, short story, it worked. They worked. So they started attracting more barbers, people who, who wanted to see that level of success. 'cause no one had really done that. So it worked and then, they went crazy, right? Entrepreneur, founder, and, and he actually took it public, oh. And here in Minneapolis, what they call local, over the counter.

So they raised $300,000 and this would've been, I think early seventies, 1970s. So, and he said, we, you know, it felt like I robbed the bank. I had all this money, and, You know, anyway, so they, they made all the classic mistakes, right? Every entrepreneur's, my dad was a, a wild entrepreneur, work, high integrity, great guy, you know, everybody loved him.

He, he was a hard worker driven, like, like, just crazy. So he, they went on, they, they grew too fast. They expanded too far. They hired a bunch of barbers to run the business. And of course they were barbers, not business people. They survived, right? All the ups and downs and sideways. And they brought in some real talented people.

They brought in marketing people, they brought in finance people. They created a private label product line. So they brought in product people, you know, they, they brought in the talent then they started to really develop the systems and, and the, the franchisees started getting into multiple units, which at that time was, was totally new. So it, it worked. They again, they survived and, the brands kept growing in the seventies and it became sort of a national brand. I remember when they hit 200 stores, that was a. Big deal, 200 locations, like wow. And then in the eighties, we developed a brand called Cost Cutters, which was like low price, quick service, no appointment, kind of the other end of the, the segment, a different segment of the industry. And while then that was engineered to be a multi-unit model, and it was engineered to be owned and operated by non-technical. Business owner. So not a barber or a hairdresser, a business owner. A business person would own a hair salon. Well, who would ever buy a hair salon if you don't cut hair? Well, they, they created the training and the management and the systems and everything.

'cause we had been in business for 15 years already. So that worked. The cost Cutters brand took off and actually eclipsed the original brand and became a much larger, faster growing. And it was engineered as a multi-unit model, which I think was early in franchising, especially in the salon business.

And, anyway that worked the franchisees were seeing some tremendous success. So we got a lot of attention. You know, when a brand is working, it's, it's not, not too hard to let it grow. And again, they made plenty of mistakes, but survived the mistakes. In the later eighties, we developed a new concept called City Looks, which was kind of an upgrade from the old barber's concept. City Looks was that high end kind of salon spa concept where they did the hair and hair color and skin and nails and massage and, you know, full service spa. Salon up, upscale salon. So we had that brand and then the original brand and then the cost cutters brand. Then in the nineties, we did some acquisitions.

We rolled up some regional brands, which was a lot of fun. Got to learn how to do that and, give those franchisees new choices and new options and, and training and support like they never had. I got to spend five years doing international franchising. We franchised in Europe. Did a master franchise based in Paris who had most of Europe, and that was an awful lot of fun. To Moscow in the early nineties and did a joint venture with some that were really Soviets at the time. And, that was quite an experience. And, again, against all odds, we, we were successful over there in the, in the later nineties. My dad passed away in 94. From cancer. He had fought cancer for a long time and my mom stepped up as chairman.

They were still majority shareholders, so before my dad passed and he was, he was fighting a slow cancer. It was a awful, terrible situation, but it gave him time to prepare. One of the things they did. Was they built up their board of directors. I mean, really added some real talent to the board of directors and they recruited outside executives.

You know, 'cause my dad, he knew he wasn't gonna, wasn't gonna be around. And my mom, while she had the, loyalty and the, the integrity, she, she wasn't a business owner, right? So she wanted a board to support her doing her role and really to hold the executive team accountable. Well, that worked. My mom took over and actually doubled the size of the system. In five years. We went from 500 to a thousand stores. And, I was busy doing international. I came back from doing that. I got doing acquisitions and strategic planning and. And we had relationship with Walmart. We were putting cost cutters inside of their supercenters. I mean, things were just going crazy. The nineties was really good for us In 97, just a few years after my dad had died. My brother, my, I had an older brother who was 10 years older. He died in a car accident, which was obviously unexpected. And that was the kind of what upset the apple cart, if you will. My mom. Of disappeared for a while and through, you know, that was awful, terrible for the whole family.

It was awful. She came back from that and came to the board meeting and said, look, I'm done. Get me out of here. I, I wanna retire. I've had enough. And the board, said, okay, we're not gonna try to change your mind. Let's figure out how to do this. So the board came up with a good plan. She was gonna sell half of her shares, so she'd still have control.

She'd get enough to retire. We were gonna do a secondary offering. We filed through the SEC and everything was, you know, it was set up. I had lined up more acquisitions. We were gonna keep doing that. We were gonna just keep growing and, and keep the gas on. And it turned into an auction. And, in 99, you know, we were getting these offers kept coming in.

We, we went to, with a strategic buyer. Who, paid us a tremendous multiple. We got an 18 times multiple, this is before private equity was all over franchise. This was very early. So, was enough for us to, Retire, everybody retired. My mom retired. The team, most of those people retired.

I went with the deal. I was 32, so that was my first retirement, I guess. But I, I wasn't about to retire really. I was, I was too young, right? And so, I, I, I went with the deal. To the buyer and that was a, a good transaction. I learned a lot. And, at the end of the day when that was all kind of done and the transition and integration was completed, I didn't feel like I owned it anymore.

It wasn't, it wasn't our company, it wasn't my business anymore. So I left and I got out there and I went on and I did five more brands on my own as a franchisor. As a franchisee and as an area developer and a regional guy or whatever. What I got, what I learned, Gary, is the experience I had growing up in my family's franchise system was tremendous.

We really did have a good business, great people, and good success All around e everybody around it was, was successful. That was a good learning experience and, I took that and took it with me and went to go help other people with their brands. And so what I, what I, I'm not much of a startup guy.

That's never been my thing. I'm more of a fixer, of a, what's holding you back? Where's the obstacle? Let's solve those problems. So I got involved in a few other brands, like I said, as a developer, some as an operator, some as a, a partner investor. Strategic or whatever. And I got really good at, at helping other people fix their franchise systems grow their systems and, and scale the difference between growing a business and scaling a system.

'cause I lived through it. I, I lived it. So, had a lot of fun. I guess I had some great experiences and, not all wins. I had my share of wins and losses, you know, but I learned from everything and, After the recession came through in 2009 and 10, all of that chaos was going on, the Great recession, you know that that stopped Franchise growth froze up solid and, and everything pretty well stopped for about a year. And I was in a brand at the time and I was selling my units. I was an operator. I was building and selling stores in my area here, and I went back to the corporate. Office and said, look, I don't think I can finance anything. Even if I could sell it, nobody can get any financing. So I think I'm done. Right? And, they're like, well, okay. I negotiated my way out of my, I had five years left on my development contract and was on track. They were happy. We made a fair deal. This was actually at a breakfast at IFA when we negotiated this deal. And, said, well, what are you gonna do? I, I said, well, you know, we've got a family.

We set up a family office. I was running that and I said, I'm gonna keep track of stuff for my, I got three sisters and my mom and, and myself, and. They said, well, why don't you come and help us at, at a, at the corporate level? I said, well, I don't wanna be busy. And they said, well, no. What, how much time do you think you wanna give? So anyway, I, I signed on as a part-time, part-time corporate employee. So I went from developer, franchisee to the corporate side in that brand and had a great run with them, help them, fix up their brand and position it for sale, which. Worked, out and, I started serving on boards. I, I got, I connected with, Gordon Logan, the founder at Sport Clips. Met him at an IFA conference and started asking questions. And you know, he's like, who are you? You know, how do you know so much about this industry and, and my business? And I said, well, I, I watched you when you were growing. I mean, we, we had an eye on them and, and everybody else too, you know, it was. So Gordon, is a great guy, very capable leader, just a tremendous, really tremendous founder. And, he had a son that was coming into the business at the time, his son Edward. And, and, I said, well, look, I was the son of the boss was being groomed to, to have a leadership role, but we wound up selling the whole company because of, mom and the brother and you know that.

And so he said, well, maybe you could come and help us. And I said, well, who, what do you, who's on your board? And, and so we, we, I went down to Texas and looked around and, and, met the family, met the team, and, and then came back with some, would say very insightful perspective that, that he agreed.

Yeah, that's interesting stuff. So he put me on his board, a board of that's a board of directors. So that one's a fiduciary board. That was 15 years ago. Maybe more now. 16. Anyway, a long time ago, 2009, I think, to be precise. So I serving on his board and, serving as a coach or consultant, and then I, I, I guess I realized that my gift is really. Helping other people see what they missed or see what's wrong with their business. I don't really wanna run a business ever again. I mean, in a, in a, in a sense of a day to day, you know, you're the leader. You got all these people and you're doing your thing. I don't really want that. I don't really need to do that.

I, I am more, I have more fun and more, impact by helping other people with their business. So serving on boards of became an evolution of, of the opportunities that were in front of me and, and me finding my path of I can do what I really like to do, what I think I'm good at, in a way that creates value for everybody involved. And so, That's a bit of my history I guess. I grew up going to IFA conventions. I grew up a son of, two founders that were fantastic. We had a great, great base to start from, and then I got more and more opportunities, more experience working with a lot of other brands over the last. Geez, probably 15 or 20 years I've had my hands in probably 50 different brands. As a, a coach, an advisor, a speaker, be shocked at what you can do in a brand speaking to their whole conference all at once, and you can move the needle for the whole brand. At one time. So I get to do that once in a while. Now I work on, I serve on I think, seven boards. If I count 'em all, six I'll say are functional.

One is sort of questionable, but that's okay. You know, these are, these are small founder led private companies. Not, not complicated, sport clips. I'm still very active there, and they're, they're very capable. They're doing a great job. Went through succession planning there and, and that worked out pretty nicely. Again, good people doing hard work and the results are, are, obvious that brand is big and stable and, and, enjoying some good results. Brands I've worked with, you know, smaller brands, but always helping that founder. I say I helped the founder become a CEO, Because that's really what my mom did. My dad never really embraced the CEO He was just too much of a entrepreneur founder. He, he really didn't care about, accountability or budgets and things of that nature was just not his thing. For my mom, it was, you know, she was very willing and capable of growing in that role. So helping her do that and watching that happen and experiencing that firsthand, I think gave me a good basis to help other people do that with their franchise companies. So that's kind of where I have been for the last, I don't know, decade or so. Just, I call myself a freestyle advisor coach. I don't use the word consultant because in franchising, you know, people think I'm. Selling franchises or, or matchmaking people to brands. And I, I don't really do that at all. I'm, I'm

Yeah,

In that. Other people who are better at that can do that. It's not my thing.

So.

Am and that's kind of how I got here.

Yeah, I mean, I, I love that you started this whole thing with this, you know, your dad going out to California to seek advice, right? He went out to learn something from somebody else that was out there in the market, that wasn't in his local area. And what I love about that, excuse me, is that nobody's gonna understand their customers better than.

The company itself, whether it be the founder or even the employees, but there's this other added element of when you need to navigate the market or need to navigate something that is new to the company, that isn't just servicing the customers, then it starts to make sense to go out to the board or go out to somebody external.

So how do you think about the right time to look internally for answers versus look externally for answers to something your company is going through?

Boy, that's a great question. Gary, I would say, You know, it depends on who you're, who you have with you, right? You can look internally all you want, and I think that's a good natural place to start, is who? Who do you know and trust? Who's with you? But I think the outside perspective is tremendously valuable, but you gotta be open to it. So I've, I've, you know, I'm, I'm an older guy now, right? I'm, no, I used to be the youngest guy in the room for a long time, but not, not anymore. Now I'm probably the oldest guy in the room in, in the old days, you know, I'd look around and say, well, who's here? And what do they know and what can I learn from them? Right. So I, my dad instilled in me this endless curiosity, you know, what can you learn and who can you learn it from? It doesn't have to be out of a book or a classroom or a video. It can be people. So engaging and building that network and leveraging that network from time to time. So I think the time to go outside is really all the time.

I, I think a good, a good business owner has outside perspective, consistently. You don't take all the advice that you get, you know, you don't implement every idea that comes through your head. You know, you, you don't, you don't, you have to be thoughtful and careful, but an out outside perspective really opens your, your range of possibilities and the creativity that comes from it. Sometimes I'll be in a, in a board meeting or, or, doing my thing and I'll ask a question or trigger an idea. That may not be exactly what they needed, it opened their mind to something else that then was what they needed. Right? So it's like a trigger that opens the thinking to the better solution that they never would've seen.

It was right in front of 'em. So a lot of the work that I do now is, is, I say I like to ask really good questions get people to really think differently and see themselves and see their business and see their, their franchise brand a different lens. And someone told me, you know, it's like you can't read the label on a bottle from inside the bottle. You have to be outside of the bottle to turn the thing and look at the front label, you know, so.

Love that.

So I'm that outside objective, professional, right? I, I, I, I don't get worked up. I don't get real high. I don't get real low. I'm pretty calm and steady. But I like to challenge in a, in a respectful, constructive kind of way.

And, It's fantastic. I've done it enough in enough brands, long enough where I can see my fingerprints on their success and that that makes me happy. I love to see other people have success and it's great if I had anything to do with it. But I don't, I don't take any credit for it. They do the work.

You know, I may show up and ask a bunch of questions and make 'em think differently and see things make better choices. But I don't, I don't take the credit. It's not my business. I didn't do that. You know, I maybe helped that happen. So I can take some, some pride in seeing the results, but, I like to help other people get where they want to go.

I mean, I, as a founder, I can agree that. Advice is everywhere, right? And I think you, you just share your story. People respond with things that are thought provoking from their history or they'll question just, you know, out of curiosity, just as you said. So I guess the next question on my end is. Every founder's getting advice.

Every founder is, especially at IFA, brushing up against other founders, people that have been on this journey, that have been doing it for years that have done it successfully. Maybe some that have failed and are going at it again, and then are successful. So they have this wealth of knowledge automatically, but there seems to be a transition where it makes sense to have an advisory board rather than showing up to IFA and being honest and open with your friends about your challenges.

What is that? Pivot point where it makes more sense to have something structured and bring in trusted advisors and have people on call for helping you navigate whatever it is your business is going through right now.

Yeah, well, I think it's a sign of maturity, frankly, when a founder realizes they don't have all the answers and, I think it's, it's real maturity when you realize you don't have to have all the answers. You have to know where to find them. Or know where to source those, those ideas and those better ideas and the people that come along with it. So I think an advisory board really makes sense for companies when the founder realizes they're gonna need some help to get where they want to go, that they, their, the business has outgrown their personal capacity and it's bigger than them. And in, in franchising, I'm a, a big believer that the franchisor. Has a fiduciary obligation to the franchisees who buy into their brand to manage that brand responsibly and, and help support those franchisees to truly be successful at the unit level. So when a franchisor realizes they've made this mutual commitment to all of these franchisees, the pressure that can create is. And if it's not managed or channeled properly, it can be overwhelming. So putting a good leadership team. In place is kind of step one other people who can help get the work done. But a good advisory board comes alongside to help that founder make better decisions and it creates the opportunity for accountability. It doesn't always create accountability, but it's more likely to happen if there's a board in place. So an advisory board is, just that they give advice. Informal, it's flexible. These are not board of directors that they're, they're completely different structures. People say, oh, I'm on the board.

Well, you know, what kind of board? So a board of directors is a much larger, more formal fiduciary. There's, you need, you need, documents, you need insurance. You know, you, you gotta have much more structured, and advisory board can be very informal and loosely structured. And it can be, can be changed real quickly and easily.

So I, I like the advisory boards. I've, I've launched and, and set up a lot of boards for franchisors I serve on some of those boards. And every once in a while I serve on, on another board that maybe I didn't create, but I come along and help fix it more effective. Right. I think that advisory board makes sense when a, when a founder realizes they need help, but they, maybe they can't afford $200,000 salary. Maybe they don't want to give away a big chunk of equity. Right now. You know, they're looking for a solution that can create. Value in the brand giving up really any control or any equity whatsoever, an advisory board can come along. And if you're gonna structure it properly, you gotta set it up carefully and you gotta use it properly. But a well, well developed and well utilized advisory board creates a lot of value for the organization, for the founder, for the owners that business. It creates confidence. For the franchisees to realize that, hey, there's more people here. Hopefully some good smart people who can help us help this brand.

That creates confidence, which always good in franchising. It, it deepens that relationship with those franchisees and a, a good advisory board can really help move that brand to that next level and, and, and prepare them for whatever they're. They're, they're trying to, to grow into or scale into. Say a good advisory board is, is a good thing to have before you entertain private equity. Believe me, private equity is gonna put a board in place. If you don't have one, they're gonna put one in and it's gonna be their people first, depending on the deal or the transaction or the sponsor or however you structure your deal. But, so I think having a board is, is a good thing. And I, I the best time to have one is before you wish you had one before things go wrong and before you're really in trouble or you're really outta your league. But sometimes it's, It's hard for founders to recognize that, but it's a low risk option. It's not expensive. I mean, it's not free, it's not cheap. I, I think you get what you pay for. But a, a good structured advisory board creates a recurring, Opportunity for consistent input from people you know and trust. So when I show up at IFA or or any other franchise conference, you know, I'm out there doing my thing and I got a lot of friends and I'm always meeting new people and you know, I just love to connect and share. But really those conversations are very surface level. Do they get, you know, one or two degrees below, you know, everything's fine.

We're doing okay. You know, maybe you've got some challenger issue. You're looking for help on one particular thing. But with a board, because of the format, if you use it properly, you're always. And reviewing, and I say pressure testing, everything that's going on inside that organization, the leadership, the management, the performance, the accountability, the structure, you know, all the way top to bottom, front to back, inside and out. A real board can really add what I would say, multidimensional value to an organization with very little risk. It's not something that just happens, you know, you have to organize it and you have to, you have to utilize it carefully. But I think a good board can really make a, a big impact. And, and the other thing I, I've seen board work do, when I, when I'm doing my work as a board member, it, it takes the pressure. From that founder or CEO creates a more balanced approach because now you've got a board that can really be strategic, help you make better decisions and hold you accountable. The board can help help with your leadership team and hold them accountable. You can blame the board for tough decisions that you gotta make.

Done that. Well, they'll tell 'em the board made you do it, you know, which may or may not be accurate, right? Advisory boards don't vote. They don't, they don't have any shares necessarily. You know, it's not required. I mean, on how you structure your, your incentives and things. But, a board can serve a lot of interesting, strategic value for the owners. I say the, the board, when I, when I'm working at the board, I'm there as if I owned the company. What would I be worried about? What am I looking for? What am I thinking about? And I ask those questions, that make people uncomfortable, but that's where they grow. Right. And that's what a good board will do is make you just a little bit uncomfortable so that your, your performance improves. And again, the confidence improves and it improves across the whole organization from the ownership to the leadership, to the management, to the franchisees. So, a big fan.

Well, clearly, and, and it sounds like it's done wonders that a lot of the brands that you both advised and for your mom and your business and your family business itself. I'm curious, you know, you talked a lot about structure and the idea of accountability and cadence and power, not. I know you know the answer here might be, it depends, but I'm curious what an ideal structure or maybe an ideal starting structure is for a founder who's getting started with an advisory board to start dipping their toe in and how to create that balance of not distraction, but getting the right people, I guess in the loosest terms, how to start thinking about putting one together.

Sure. Well, I, I'll just, shameless plug here is I, I've written a monthly blog for 10 years, so there's a ton of stuff and I write about board work a lot. So you can, you can find that it's not hard to find and you can read all you want about it. But I would say it's a good starting point is, you know, be careful with expectations. So setting expectations of what the board is and what the board. Isn't what they do and what they don't do, and what their role is, what their function is, and how you wanna structure that board. I, I usually say, people say, well, who should be on my board? I say, well, there's, there's, there's at least three people that immediately come to mind.

One, first board member you wanna pick is a, I would say a loyalist. Someone who's loyal to you as these are private company, small business, oh, you know, a someone who. Loyal to the owner, maybe your spouse, a relative, maybe a neighbor, a friend from school, someone you know and trust who's gonna be watching out your best interest. In the case, something happens to you and you're not around. They're gonna make sure that whatever it is you wanted to happen is more likely gonna happen. So a loyalist is number one, and that's a, always an obvious choice, but that's the first. The second, like a good financial mind on the board. A banker, a CPA, someone with some financial aptitude, someone who can see the business through the numbers and help you through the what if, what if we do this? What if we do that well, what's the impact? And a lot of that financial, if you don't have a, a sophisticated CFO, you know, smaller businesses don't have that level of, of, So a board can serve some of that. And then the, the third is a, someone who knows your business, someone who knows your industry. Maybe it's a retired competitor. You'd be surprised at the knowledge they're willing to share, because they're, they're done and they wanna, you know, and they, they know the business, they know the industry. A, a loyalist, a financial person, and then someone who knows your business but is not a, obviously not a competitor, but someone who can relate to what you're doing. Maybe they have network or connections or certainly relationships around the whatever industry you're in. And not just franchising like. I've worked in, janitorial, commercial cleaning. I've worked in remodeling, obviously hair salons, other boards and other industries. So people from those industries, not just the franchise industry, but whatever the, the, the category that you're actually in. And then from there you can add other folks.

Know, I've had people who say, well, we're a struggle with technology. Let's put a technology person on your board. Or someone says, I want to go international. Great, let's put an international person with that experience on your board and they can help. Or I, I wanna get into the private equity world.

Well, let's find someone who knows something about that or who's had that experience. So your board, an advisory board can flex and change as the business and leadership. And has needs that change. So I think it's, it's good to start with some core members and some structure and, and very clear expectations. The other thing is the agenda matters. The, the meeting agenda, the materials that you put out. And when you put those out in advance, like I like it a week in advance. If you send it to me the night before, there's no way I'm gonna look at it. I just don't have the capacity. But if you send it to me a week in advance. I'll, I'll get a couple hours in to review and be totally prepared for that meeting. So there's some structural things and, and, again, setting up those expectations. When a new board launches, one of the things I recommend is you have monthly board meetings for the first three months, so you have 1, 2, 3. Every month for three months because there's a learning curve for the board members. They maybe don't know your business or know your team or know your people. And if you start out quarterly, it'll take 'em all year to get a understanding of your business. So if you have 1, 2, 3 meetings right away. Ramps up that learning curve.

Plus you'll know if some of those board members really aren't a good fit, that'll, that'll show up. They'll either not available or not engaged, and you might say, you know, I, I don't think this is gonna work. And you, you move them out and you put somebody else in that seat. So three meetings right away, then go every other month for the next three meetings.

So you put a little more space between them now they're up the curve and they're working together and, and now you kind of know what to expect. And then you settle in on a quarterly, cadence where, and I say at least once a year you wanna meet in person. I like to show up at the brand conference.

That's a lot of fun for me. And I say, let's do the board meeting a couple days before, or a day before or the day after. If, if you're not already exhausted, you know. But, bringing your board members to your brand conference is a, a real opportunity 'cause they get to see it and feel it and, and connect with your people and your vendors and your, your team, and your franchisees.

And more I know, the better I can serve your business. So I love showing up at those conferences. Even if I'm just a, a visitor, an observer, I, I don't have any formal role. I'm not expected to do anything, but, but show up and ask questions and, so you wanna, you wanna engage your board at an appropriate level. And again, from the beginning, you know, a little steeper incline is good because you gotta prove the board works and you gotta get that board educated and acclimated to your business and your people and everything that's going on in there. And then it's a matter of the board only knows what you share. Unless you've got some board members like me who will ask tough questions, right, and make you uncomfortable, but that's the more I know, the better I can serve, right? So I say bring to your board just what's going on and what your problems are, but bring them to things that you really don't know and the things you're really uncomfortable with. That's when you're really using a board at a high level. 'cause they will help you sort out what's important and what's not important. And they don't know everything, right. But we're, we're smarter together. Right. When the board has that collaborative, engagement, that's when really breakthrough ideas come through. And then you can take your board through workshops. We've, I've done the 10 x workshop a board, for a brand, which had a tremendous impact on that company. It was wonderful. I mean, it took a little bit of time, but very valuable for that founder and, and those, those shareholders in that brand. So a, a wide range of things you can do with a board. But if you don't have one, you can't use it. So I'm a big fan, I get one. And if you don't know where to start, you know, there's books, there's people, there's resources,

Yeah.

All that.

Amazing. Well, I don't think we have enough time for any more questions, but, you kind of, you had a, a dovetail into the last one perfectly there. If people do have more questions, they wanna reach out or have questions on their board, what's the best way to get in touch with you?

Well, my name is John Francis. My nickname is Johnny Franchise, right? Someone gave me that nickname. That's kind of my handle, my brand. Johnny franchise.com. I'm all over the socials. I'm not hard to find. You know, hit my website. There's links and schedulers and, whatever you call the message content.

However you can find me, I said just call me, right? I, if I'm not talking to someone else, I usually answer the phone. And, I. Know, I'm happy to share ideas and, and ask questions and, and try to point you in the right direction if I can be a resource, because that's great. If not, I'll, I'll try to help you.

Otherwise I'll get out of the way. You know, I don't, I don't really, need to do anything. I love to do what I'm doing. It's, it's a, it's a privilege for me to help other people with their franchising. 'cause when everybody gets it, right, when the franchisor does their piece, the franchisee does their piece, then the supplier. Their piece, everybody wins. I don't know anything that creates more success than a, than a well run franchise system. That's what I'm trying to do is help whoever I can, wherever they are, try to help them get to that next level their franchise. Thank.

I can't confirm, John, that you've just been an open book and a honest operator and even the advice you've given me is great. And for those who don't know. Of John's blog. It is fantastic. John, thanks so much for the time, until next time.

Thank you, Gary. I appreciate it. Thanks a lot.

Yeah.